Cats: Ethics Last show’s investigation of whether cats can be vegan leaves us with an ethical quandary. What should vegans feed cats? Erin and I reflect on listener’s comments. The three expert veterinarians examine the moral issues. And I ask Eric Weisman, CEO of major US vegan cat food brand Evolution, some tough questions. Download: (... More)

Cats: Ethics

Last show’s investigation of whether cats can be vegan leaves us with an ethical quandary. What should vegans feed cats?

Erin and I reflect on listener’s comments. The three expert veterinarians examine the moral issues. And I ask Eric Weisman, CEO of major US vegan cat food brand Evolution, some tough questions.

Download: theVeganOption_1303_Cats_Ethics.mp3

(30 min) Play or download (18MB MP3) (via iTunes)

Veterinarian Guests

There is more information about Lorelei Wakefield, Andrew Knight, and Jean Hofve on the episode page for the last episode, “Cats: Can They Be Vegan?”.

Since then, Lorelei Wakefield’s site, vegetariancats.com, has returned, and there’s lots of information there. She is also conducting a new study, with a focus on the urinary tract issues we discussed in the last show, and is asking cat owners to complete her survey and share medical records.

Erin “Red” Grayson

Erin can be found at Tumblr (currently), ErinRed.com (under construction), and @ErinRed on Twitter.

She mentions a discussion about the ethical dilemma of vegan cats with Prof Gary Francione in a February 2012 episode of Red Radio, and quotes Hamlet.

Lisa Freeman’s 2004 Study of Cat Foods

Lisa Freeman was the senior member of a team that tested:

Vegecat KibbleMix, from Harbingers of a New Age Evolution diet vegan gourmet vegetable stew entrée, Evolution Diet

(Technically, I should be calling it the Gray study, as she is the primary author.)

In our brief conversation, Dr Freeman strongly backed the veterinary consensus, saying there was no safe way to feed a cat vegan.

The study is:

Christina M. Gray, Rance K. Sellon, Lisa M. Freeman (2004), Nutritional Adequacy of Two Vegan Diets for Cats. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 225:11, 1670-175

Eric Weisman and Evolution Diet

Eric Weisman is the Chief Executive of Evolution Diet, manufacturers of vegan foods for cats, dogs, and ferrets, in St. Paul, Minnesota USA. He also posts at WeismanNutrition.com.

Loss of Chiropractic Licence

Eric Weisman gained his licence in 1979, but in 1982, he was reprimanded and put on probation for one year; and again in 1986 and 1987. The complaints process ended in a 1997 Order in which Mr Weisman agreed that he’d committed a number of practices, including:

Advertisements in connection with Respondent’s [Mr Weisman's] pet food business which identify Respondent only as “Dr. Eric Weisman” and from which a reader could reasonably infer that Respondent is a veterinarian instead of a chiropractor.

He accepted a penalty of 300 hours of community service, a $15,000 fine, and some ethics courses. In 1999, the board found he had paid the penalty in time or money; and in 2002 the board revoked his licence for breaches of the 1997 order [PDF] , including:

Engaged in advertising that is false or misleading

The memo that the board attached to the order said that:

The advertisements admittedly issued by the Respondent also include claims that his treatment programs for animal and human disease have “good long-term results in most cases.” During his January 9, 2001, conference with the Panel, the Respondent stated that he defines a “good long-term result” as an instance in which an animal using his products and/or treatment programs survived longer than was originally predicted by a veterinarian. Because the Respondent's definition of “long-term is contrary to its common dictionary definition,” his claims about “good long-term results” also are false and misleading.

The Respondent has disseminated advertisements in which he claims his research or the research conducted by his pet food company proves dogs and cats can  live 20-25 healthy years and thereby implies that the use of his products lengthens the life expectancies of animals. He admitted, however, that he does not have a dog that has lived 25 years, he did not conduct any actual research other than calling about 30 veterinarians, and he was not referencing animals that had used his products, the Respondent admitted  during his conference with the Complaint Panel that this claim is “just an assumption” on his part because he distributes the food throughout the United States. This claim is false or misleading because the Respondent has no actual data or information to support this representation. His claims about animals' life expectancies, therefore, are false or misleading.

Thus, “overselling”.

The Minnesota Court of Appeals upheld the revocation the following year.

Those documents, again, are:

Minnesota Board of Chiropractic Examiners, Stipulation and Order, 17th July 1987 Minnesota Board of Chiropractic Examiners, Eric Weisman revocation order Court Action

The Minnesota Board of Veterinary Medicine sued Weisman in 2002; the parties settled the case in 2003 by agreeing an injunction [PDF].

This banned him from, in part:

Engaging in any conduct that constitutes the practice of veterinary medicine …

… making any claim that Defendant’s pet food or other (less...)

Cats: Can they be vegan? Three experienced veterinarians with experience of vegan cats say whether and why they think cats can thrive on a vegan diet. Jean Hofve argues – out of bitter experience – that cats need meat. Andrew Knight advocates a vegan diet for cats – if you do it right. Only Lorelei Wakefield (... More)

Cats: Can they be vegan?

Three experienced veterinarians with experience of vegan cats say whether and why they think cats can thrive on a vegan diet.

Jean Hofve argues – out of bitter experience – that cats need meat.

Andrew Knight advocates a vegan diet for cats – if you do it right.

Only Lorelei Wakefield has published a peer-reviewed study to try to discover who is right.

Download: theVeganOption_1301_Cats_Health.mp3

(23 min) Play or download (15MB MP3) (via iTunes)

Veterinarian Guests Lorelei Wakefield

Lorelei Wakefield’s study site – vegetariancats.com – is currently down, but you can access vegetariancats.com via web.archive.org. That peer-reviewed paper is:

Wakefield, LA; Shofer, FS & Michel, KE (2006). “Evaluation of cats fed vegetarian diets and attitudes of their caregivers” .Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association,  229  (1): 70–3.

She does housecalls in NYC, and her site is ComfortsOfHomeVet.com.

Lorelei is vegan. Her own cat, Noel, used to be vegan but is now on a meat-based prescription food.

Andrew Knight

In between extreme ironing , vegan campaigning, and writing a cost/benefit analysis of Animal Experiments, Andrew Knight also runs VegePets.info, which offers advice for people considering vegetarian diets for dogs and cats.

Jean Hofve

Jean Hofve is a retired veterinarian with an interest in nutrition and alternative veterinary medicine.

She writes at Little Big Cat .com, including about vegetarian cats.

Other Guests Erin “Red” Grayson

Erin offers listeners to Red Radio ”vegan banter with a bite” – strong vegan opinions and supportive commentary, as well as guests, compassionate clips, and rants.

She’s Canadian transplanted to Brooklyn, where she co-founded “The Seed: a vegan experience”, and practices muay Thai.

Erin can be found at Tumblr (currently), ErinRed.com (under construction), and@ErinRed on Twitter.

She discussed the ethical dilemma of vegan cats with Prof Gary Francione in a February 2012 episode of Red Radio.

Mazzy

Mazzy is a female tortoiseshell rescue cat, and she’s on my lap as I’m typing this.

She’s also had struvite crystals (when on a meat-based diet) so she’s also on a meat-based prescription diet.

Mainstream veterinary opinion

David Dzanis wrote in the Veterinarian Newsletter in 1999, concluding of both dogs and cats:

… while both species can eat and utilize some plant-source ingredients (dogs more than cats), they simply are not intended to eat only plants as are other animals such as cattle and sheep.

Vegetarian Diets for Pets?, FDA Veterinarian Newsletter May/June 1999 Volume XIV, No III

The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals say:

When it comes to felines, it really is best to provide a diet that includes meat.

I’m going to pass this on to other websites, but we mentioned that the challenges for vegan cats are:

That US National Research Council released dietary guidelines for Cats and Dogs in 2003 (before Lorelei Wakefield’s study) saying that cats:

should not be fed a vegetarian diet because it could result in harmful deficiencies of certain amino acids, fatty acids, and vitamins

The show specifically discussed how cats need Taurine and B12; and the dangers of urinary struvite crystals.

Other vegan experiences

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau addressed the issue in her 2007 podcast episode, What do Vegetarians Feed their Dogs and Cats? - and, as I mentioned, feeds her cats meat.

US writer and activist Jo Stepaniak blogged about how she feeds her cats meat after they did not thrive on a vegan diet.

Vegan vet Armaiti May advises having a vet monitor your cat’s urine pH, rather than doing it yourself.

Animal Voices (Toronto) covered this topic in 2006 with a round table discussion, involving two local activists whose cats fell seriously ill on a vegan diet, as well as Eric Wiseman of Evolution pet food.

Thanks

… go to Robb Masters for the music, the three veterinarians for our interviewees, and of course Erin Red.

Production Note

The interview with Andrew Knight is from back in 2010, hence some rookie mic handling noise.

This is not veterinary advice. It is a radio show with vets.

Next show: Cats, the ethical quandary, and the criminal vegan pet food CEO

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If you’re like most of our listeners, you get The Vegan Option show via the podcast feed – an automatic index of shows that’s read by iTunes, Stitcher and other “podcatchers”. (If you haven’t heard any of the shows – what are you waiting for? Use the “Listen” menu at the top, pick a show that (... More)

If you’re like most of our listeners, you get The Vegan Option show via the podcast feed – an automatic index of shows that’s read by iTunes, Stitcher and other “podcatchers”. (If you haven’t heard any of the shows – what are you waiting for? Use the “Listen” menu at the top, pick a show that piques your interest, and press play. That’s the other way of hearing episodes.)

The shows usually focus on topics rather than individual interviewees – talking to a range of people to get a full picture. This can mean that only a few minutes out of an hour-long interview gets into the show. (This isn’t unusual for public radio documentaries.)

Some full interviews are posted on the website – such as our conversations with Peter Singer and Gary Francione for the episode “Peace on Earth”. But should they go in the podcast feed as well? Diana asked on the Facebook page and “yes” not only won the vote, but for some people it was the only way to get the extended interviews.

So from now on, rough edits of extended interviews will go in the podcast feed as well as the website. This starts with Diana’s full conversation with Dr Julia Minson, part of the “Judgemental!” show:

Download: Judgemental_JuliaMinsonInterview_Feed.mp3

(24 mins) (download or play MP3 file 16MB)

If you want to only hear the edited shows – particularly if you are catching up with the archive – it’s easy to skip the extended interviews. They’ll still be there if you want to come back to them.

More changes are coming, once the next show (about the dilemmas that vegans with cats face) is ready.

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Travelling Vegan in SE Asia In 2009, I travelled through South East Asia from equatorial island to the far north of Thailand, discovering the vegetarian threads running through the region. Hear Diana and I banter about my trials and triumphs on everything from missing passports to cheeky elephants. Download: (... More)

Travelling Vegan in SE Asia

In 2009, I travelled through South East Asia from equatorial island to the far north of Thailand, discovering the vegetarian threads running through the region. Hear Diana and I banter about my trials and triumphs on everything from missing passports to cheeky elephants.

Download: theVeganOption_SoutheastAsia.mp3

(25 min) Play or download (MP3 26MB) (other formats) (via iTunes)

The Restaurants

I talked with:

Jack from Whole Earth restaurant in Singapore Chong Keng Hoon from Luk Yea Yan in Penang, Malaysia Nan from Taste from Heaven in Chaing Mai, Thailand Nicolas from Chamkar in Siem Reap, Cambodia.

These links are mostly to reviews on Happy Cow – whose founder Eric Brent was on our episode about Digital Vegans.

Elephant Nature Park

Taste from Heaven raises money for the Elephant Nature Park, where I volunteered. I talked about washing Elephants in the show: here are some of my holiday snaps. Click on the thumbnails for the full picture.

Verdant Reports

Before The Vegan Option, I produced some five minute podcasts under a pseudonym, and released them at Verdant Reports .org. They include three five minute clips about my journey through SE Asia.

(Verdant Reports didn’t really catch on. Perhaps because they didn’t have Diana to keep me in check, and perhaps because the name is both obscure and difficult to spell out in your web browser.)

Those reports use the same interviews but are more focussed on travel advice, so you might find them useful if you’re planning to go to the region.

Also

20% of chefs surveyed by the Time Out New York Kitchen Report admitted to putting animals in the ostensibly vegetarian option (in a graphic that’s since been removed from the page).

Diana mentioned the Supreme Master restaurants (which we in London know as ”Loving Hut”).

Other Vegan Travelogues

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau was part of our last episode, Judgemental!, advising us on how not to be, well, judgemental. She podcast her visit to the UK (although, sadly, she did not visit us in London):

A Journey Through England and Scotland Through the Eyes of an Animal-Centric, Anglophilic, Literary Geek

Jasmin Singer and Dr Mariann Sullivan of Our Hen House drove across the United States to get to Marianne’s new job in Portland. During their “Great American Road Trip”, they continued to podcast every week:

Episode 130, with Honey LaBronx Episode 131, with  Isa Chandra Moskowitz, Katie Olson, and Brian Endl Episode 132, with Bonnie Goodman from Mordamart, Sue Eakins from New Dawn Sanctuary, Kit and Pete Jagoda of Rivers Wish Sanctuary, and Tracy Martin of Rabbitron Episode 133, with Rich Roll Thanks

Our thanks go to Robb Masters and the Elephant Nature Park mahouts for the music, and our interviewees including Lisa Green, Izzy, and Dr Peter Flügel of SOAS, University of London.

Thanks also to Kip Dorrell of Messy Vegetarian Cook, who took the picture of Taste from Heaven’s Choo Chee Curry at the top of the page during her own trip to Thailand’s Kin Jay national vegetarian festival.

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Judgemental! Those judgemental vegans. A charge you’ve probably heard (or perhaps even uttered). But what is “judgement”? How does it really affect the relationships between vegans and others? What can scientists say about it? And how do vegan activists react to the charge? Dr Julia Minson explains the science. Marla (... More)

Judgemental!

Those judgemental vegans. A charge you’ve probably heard (or perhaps even uttered).

But what is “judgement”? How does it really affect the relationships between vegans and others? What can scientists say about it? And how do vegan activists react to the charge?

Dr Julia Minson explains the science.

Marla Rose explains exactly how Bacon Loving Hipsters Can Kiss Her Vegan Ass.

And Colleen Patrick-Goudreau discusses the psychology and experience of “judgemental vegans”.

Download: theVeganOption_judgementalB.mp3

(30 min) Play or download (29 MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes)

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau

The compassionate cook is a leading vegan advocate across several media, including podcasts (VegNews favourite podcast 2011). Another podcast host - Erin Grayson of Red Radio - has a tattoo that asks what Colleen would do.

Just in case you haven’t heard of her, she’s the author of several vegan cookbooks, the producer of the 30 Day Vegan Challenge online course, and a speaker who is famous for espousing veganism in a spiritual and non-judgemental way.

She relates Julia Minson’s research to her experience as an advocate, and discusses how she tries not to be judgemental – even at barbecues.

Marla Rose

Marla Rose practices a range of advocacy.

Her Vegan Feminist Agitator blog and Bacon Loving Hipsters Can Kiss My Vegan Ass Facebook group offer vegans laughs; she’s written a book about a 15 year old vegan superhero with empathy superpowers; and when we called her home was in the midst of preparations for the outreach event Chicago Veganmania.

Diana asks her if her humour is, perhaps, judgemental: and Marla describes how she resented the smug vegan who convinced her to drop animal products.

Dr Julia Minson

Julia Minson is a postdoctoral fellow in social psychology at the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania.

She researches how attitudes change and “moral minorities”, a term which aptly defines vegans. She’s also a vegetarian.

Julia talks with Diana about her research into attitudes to vegetarians, and how insulting vegetarians might make you more likely to adopt their views.

Diana also discussed “Anti-social punishment” with Colleen. This is the phenomenon of punishing people for being too nice. (The more usual kind of punishment, such as jailing bank robbers, is “pro-social”.)

References:

Julia discusses Do-Gooder Derogation : Disparaging Morally Motivated Minorities to Defuse Anticipated Reproach (PDF) (abstract), Julia A. Minson and Benoît Monin, Social Psychological and Personality Science 2012 3: 200 For an cultural study of anti-social punishment, look at page 9-10 of The Weirdest People in the World? (PDF) (abstract at cambridge.org), Joseph Henricha, Steven J. Heinea and Ara Norenzayan, Behavioral and Brain Sciences 2010 Vol 33: 2-3 pp 61-83 Thanks

Our thanks go to Robb Masters for the music; and a hat tip to Our Hen House for originally mentioning Julia’s study in their own podcast.

Production Note

During our chat with Colleen, we played her Dr Minson’s interview and summarised Marla’s; and then I edited it together. The guests don’t sound like they’re on VoIP because this month all our guests sent us recordings of their side of the conversation. Thanks!

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London Olympics: Closing Update As the athletes celebrate their victories and defeats, and the Spice Girls rock the closing ceremony, we look back over the Olympics and update you on the vegan stories behind the games. This show: We catch up with the vegan stories behind the Olympics, like Sandra Hood, Pogocafe, and Frys Ian updates you (... More)

London Olympics: Closing Update

As the athletes celebrate their victories and defeats, and the Spice Girls rock the closing ceremony, we look back over the Olympics and update you on the vegan stories behind the games.

This show:

We catch up with the vegan stories behind the Olympics, like Sandra Hood, Pogocafe, and Frys Ian updates you on the use of animals in the Opening Ceremony Rudy tells us who’s been coming to Vx, the little vegan shop that was braced for a difficult Olympics We sum up the experience of vegans looking for food at the Olympic Venues

Download: londonolympics_3_food.mp3

(15 min) Play or download (14MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes)

Athletes Vegan-Sponsored Olympians

In the first Olympic show, Diana suggested athletes you might want to cheer on the basis of their vegan sponsors rather than their flag:

US Rowing, sponsored by “Perfect Snaque”, won 1 Gold and 2 Bronze medals The Women of US Water Polo, sponsored by vegan hair care products Malibu C, won Gold Unfortunately, Simon Whitfield broke his collarbone in a Triathalon cycling crash. Vegan Cross and other businesses

Rudy owns and runs Vx (pronounced “V Cross”).

My local vegan anarchist cafe is Pogocafe; and we mentioned Ms Cupcake.

Animals at the Opening Ceremony

I shall blog about this soon. First Choice Animals went public in an article “Meet the Real Stars of the Olympic Opening Ceremony” in the UK Independent.

Vegan Food at the Olympic Venues

Update 19/8/12: I have blogged about the experiences of vegan spectators, as they reported on social media and to us.

The short version is to take your own food, but check the rules first.

Thanks

Our thanks go to Robb Masters for the music, to Rudi for his time, and to everyone else I chased for answers and information.

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Kara Lang, Vegan Olympian Kara Lang  holds the record as the youngest woman ever to score a goal in international soccer – but her passions also include vegan cupcakes. Now retired from football, she took time out from her busy schedule as part of Canadian station CTV’s Olympic team to talk to me about her story, touring, and the (... More)

Kara Lang, Vegan Olympian

Kara Lang  holds the record as the youngest woman ever to score a goal in international soccer – but her passions also include vegan cupcakes.

Now retired from football, she took time out from her busy schedule as part of Canadian station CTV’s Olympic team to talk to me about her story, touring, and the vegan mentor she improbably found in her own national squad.

Download: londonolympics_karalang.mp3

(10min) Play or download (9.5 MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes)

Kara Lang

You can find Kara Lang at:

@Kara_Lang on Twitter Kara Lang on Tumblr Kara Lang on CanadaSoccer.com Her journalism at CTVOlympics.ca

Sportsnet.ca interviewed her about her retirement from football.

London Places

Lara mentioned fellow Canadian Ms Cupcake and vegan shop Vx.

Amy Walsh

Amy was that vegan mentor. You can find her at:

@amyhwalsh on Twitter Amy Walsh on CanadaSoccer.com Thanks

Our thanks go to Robb Masters for the music, and to Kara Lang for her time. Where we recorded turned out to be under a busy flight path, so there’s a bit of non-Olympic background noise.

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London Olympics Athletes from across the world are coming to East London – where we produce the show – but what are the vegan perspectives on the Olympic games? This show: Diana talks to Sandra Hood, who wrote the book on raising vegan children, about carrying the Olympic torch Amazingly, keeping the Olympics supplied with (... More)

London Olympics

Athletes from across the world are coming to East London – where we produce the show – but what are the vegan perspectives on the Olympic games?

This show:

Diana talks to Sandra Hood, who wrote the book on raising vegan children, about carrying the Olympic torch Amazingly, keeping the Olympics supplied with a vegan mince that caters can use as a drop in substitute for ground meat is down to one small company – I visit the father and daughter who are supplying the Olympic games with the vegan option What do the locals think? The staff of the nearest vegan cafe to the games have their say. We fill you in on the stories you might have heard in the media – Venus Williams‘s diet, the Chinese volleyball team, and the use of animals in the opening ceremony

Download: london_olympics_1.mp3

(24 min) Play or download (20MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes)

Athletes Venus and Serena Williams

Venus Williams and Serena Williams represent the US at Tennis.

Venus has Sjögrens syndrome. You can see her discuss her raw vegan diet on CBS (Jul 10);  she called herself a chegan (“cheating vegan”) in a press conferences, reports Tennis Panorama.

Some vegans say that her sister, Serena, with whom she won the Wimbledon Ladies Doubles title, is also vegan; Celeb Buzz quotes her as saying that she won’t eat chicken at home with Venus.

The publicist told me that:

Serena's diet is more “Raw” then “Vegan” although it is quite close.

Barcelona, 1992

We mentioned:

Carl Lewis, who competed in Barcelona on a vegan diet. Fiona Oakes, who cycled for Britain in Barcelona, and now runs Tower Stables animal sanctuary. Nearly Olympian Vegans

Pam Boteler, American canoeist, is raw vegan – but only men’s sprint canoe is an Olympic sport

James Southwood is one of the world’s leading Savateurs – French kickboxers – as well as being a former marketing officer for the UK Vegan Society. Paris was a close second for hosting the 2012 games, and would likely have added Savate as at least a demonstration event, as it did in 1924.

An already-Olympian we didn’t mention is Kara Lang, Canada, Football/Soccer – who competed in Beijing (2008) but was prevented from competing this year by an injury.  She’s in London as a journalist.

Vegan-Sponsored Olympians

Diana suggested athletes you might want to cheer on the basis of their vegan sponsors rather than their flag:

US Rowing, sponsored by “Perfect Snaque” US Water Polo, sponsored by vegan hair care products Malibu C Canadian Triathlete Simon Whitfield, who uses and endorses the approach and supplements of vegan ultramarathon runner Brendan Brazier. Sandra Hood, Registered Dietitian

Sandra Hood has spoken for the UK Vegan Society on diet issues, and wrote Feeding Your Vegan Infant with Confidence. The Olympic Torch Relay page on Sandra Hood has more information about her work on diabetes.

We discussed the Chinese volleyball team, whose complaints have been mentioned by NPR’s The Salt (who mentioned they were on the road without access to untainted meat) and The Guardian (who reported that they were only avoiding pork, whilst eating fish and “protein powder”).

I did not mention that the additive Clenbuterol is also unlawful. In 2009, over 70 people in China fell ill after eating Pork contaminated with Clenbuterol.

My local vegan anarchist cafe is Pogocafe; Diana cited the Olympian Economics episode of Freakanomics Radio.

Animals at the Opening Ceremony

You can read more about that story at:

LOCOG announcement about the opening ceremony, including that it will involve farm animals UK group Viva’s page about the campaign against the use of animals in the opening ceremony Guardian coverage of the controversy

The calculation of 20,000 chickens being eaten was based on the quantity of poultry mentioned in the LOCOG Factpack, assumptions that this was from birds of the same weights and proportions as 2010 UK production of carcasses and that 85% of a carcass is, ethics notwithstanding, edible.

We recorded the show on Friday afternoon and uploaded it (without show notes) as the opening ceremony was beginning.

Frys’ Veggiemince at the Olympics

I visted Frys Distribution, who import from family business Frys Vegetarian in South Africa. Because some will want to know, of the voices you heard, Lisa is vegan, Pat is almost, and Kevin is omnie.

Local radio in Durban, South Africa also interviewed manufacturer Tammy Fry.

Thanks

Our thanks go to Robb Masters for the music, to Sandra Hood and to Fry’s and Pogocafe for their time.

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Vegan Cheese What is the secret of making cheese without dairy that stretches and melts? Is there a cheese addiction? What’s the past, present, and future of vegan cheese? And if you brought together the leading vegan cheeses from Europe and the Americas – like Redwoods Cheezly, Vegusto, and Daiya – that aren’t (... More)

Vegan Cheese

What is the secret of making cheese without dairy that stretches and melts?

Is there a cheese addiction?

What’s the past, present, and future of vegan cheese?

And if you brought together the leading vegan cheeses from Europe and the Americas – like Redwoods Cheezly, Vegusto, and Daiya – that aren’t meant to be available in the same country, let alone the same pizza – who would win?

Download: TheVeganOption-VeganCheese.mp3

(28 min) Play or download (26 MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes)

Spoiler warning: the results of the taste test are below the fold.

Casein and Casomorphins

Neal Barnard summarises the case for regarding cheese as a narcotic 2003 article in PCRM Good Medicine Magazine, Breaking the Food Seduction:

At first, the researchers theorized that it must have come from the cows' diets. After all, morphine used in hospitals comes from poppies and is also produced naturally by a few other plants that the cows might have been eating. But it turns out that cows actually produce it within their bodies, just as poppies do. Traces of morphine, along with codeine and other opiates, are apparently produced in cows' livers and can end up in their milk.

But that was only the beginning, as other researchers soon found. Cow's milk—or the milk of any other species, for that matter—contains a protein called casein that breaks apart during digestion to release a whole host of opiates called casomorphins. A cup of cow's milk contains about six grams of casein. Skim milk contains a bit more, and casein is concentrated in the production of cheese.

Traces seem unlikely to have a psychoactive affect, so we did not mention morphine or codeine in the show.

Casomorphins, on the other hand, are real and unambiguous; Diana examined the literature, discussed them in the show, and will also blog about them shortly.

Eva Batt’s Vegan Cheese Recipe

I followed a recipe for vegan cheese taken from a 1985 update of “What’s Cooking” by Eva Batt (1973), and you can see Diana posing with the 1980s vegan cheese. The recipe – soy flour, soy margarine, and yeast extract – represents the era more than it does Eva.

Eva Batt played a leading role in British veganism in the sixties, seventies, and eighties, including the “Open Door” film mentioned in our Born Vegan show and, of course, cookbooks.

How to Make Vegan Cheese Stretch

I sent interview requests to half a dozen companies, including Daiya and Redwoods, and was glad to speak with Mark, the Director of Vegusto UK, to hear his views on where the analogue food movement is going. Though it didn’t get a mention in the show, he’s vegan.

Dr Jonathan Gordon consults at Glasgow Consulting in Rhode Island, USA.

You might also enjoy “Cracking the Code: Making Vegan Cheese taste Cheesier” on NPR’s Food Blog, The Salt.

The Vegan Cheese Taste Test

We chose Redwoods Super Melting Cheezly (from the English Midlands, owned by Heather Mills) as the best UK melting vegan cheese, and Daiya Mozzarella style shreds as Diana’s favourite in the US.

London Vegan boutique Vx had recently recommended the new Vegusto No-Moo Melty, so we added that too.

This took place in May 2011; so this show was over a year in the making.

Method

Diana made two pizzas on storebought crust- tomato mushroom and spinach pesto, and I added the cheese in three concentric circles. From inside to outside, I put Redwoods Cheezly, Vegusto, and Daiya on one pizza and reversing the order on the other pizza. It’s important to be fair. All ten guests scored the pizzas out of 10. Let no-one tell me I don’t know how to party.

Results

The average scores for the whole group were: Daiya 3.2, Redwoods 3.9, and Vegusto 4.1. The four vegans ranked them the same, but with higher scores (5.3; 6.0; and 6.3).

Conclusions:

Use vegan cheese as a seasoning rather than a bulk ingredient, particularly with those who eat dairy cheese. Don’t forget flavour. It’s steadily getting better – this unknown cheese from Switzerland is actually reasonably good, and the Daiya Jack Style Wedge went down well with Diana’s mother and her husband.

Diana mentioned Gwendolyn Mather’s third prize with a vegan Daiya/Tofutti sandwich in the Grilled Cheese Invitational; Gwendolyn blogged about this for Compassion over Killing.

Thanks

Our thanks go to Robb Masters (who coincidentally reviewed vegan cheese for the London Vegan Campaigns vegan pledge) for the music, to our friends at the garden party for tolerating the taste test, and to Mark Galvin and Jonathan Gordon for talking with me.

And to the people who make vegan cheese. I still like it.

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Born Vegan: The Parents’ Turn We took the show on the road to VegfestUK to find out how parents met the challenges of raising children vegan in a non-vegan world. What do they tell their children about how the rest of the world treats animals? Ian tracked down Mair Perkins from her entry in an old pamphlet of vegan case histories, and (... More)

Born Vegan: The Parents’ Turn

We took the show on the road to VegfestUK to find out how parents met the challenges of raising children vegan in a non-vegan world. What do they tell their children about how the rest of the world treats animals?

Ian tracked down Mair Perkins from her entry in an old pamphlet of vegan case histories, and talked to Ruby Roth, who has defended her children’s book “Vegan is Love” on US Networks from Fox to NBC.

Diana talked with Lauren and her parents when they came to our recording of the show at VegfestUK Bristol.

Download: theVeganOption_BornVeganParents.mp3

(18 min) Play or download (20 MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes)

Ruby Roth

Ruby Roth is the author of This is Why We Don’t Eat Animals and Vegan is Love, as well as an illustrator (NSFW) of liberated womanhood and hip-hop.

She has made her case and defended her book across TV and newspapers internationally. She’s also been on many animal issues shows: Animal Voices Vancouver; All Things Vegan Radio (Oregon, USA); AR Zone (discussing feminism, and socialisation), and Sentients (KZFR, California, USA).

VegFestUK

The organisers of VegfestUK in Bristol say it’s the world’s largest vegan event with 25,000 visitors. It’s a showcase of vegan wares, with live music drawing the omnivorous punters in.

They also run the VegfestUK awards. We were very grateful to be nominated in the “best vegan media publication or website” category.

We didn’t win, but if thousands of votes have been cast then to get 7% of them, despite being such a new show, is extremely humbling.

Benjamin Zephaniah, who took part in our show about Syria’s national poet, the medieval vegan rationalist Al-Ma’arri, won “best vegan musician/performer”.

Plamil

Plamil was set up in 1960′s Britain to produce a “plant milk” alternative to dairy. Being a vegan company, they also published some vegan pamphlets and tried to help support vegan parents.

They published Vegan Infants Case Histories, which combined the experience of parents with pages by a GP and a dietician.

The company is now run by the late founder’s son, Adrian Ling, and produces a range of vegan confections and dairy alternatives.

Mair Perkins, who featured in the case histories, is also an artist; an animator and illustrator, her video won first prize in the 2008 Design against Fur competition.

Thanks

Our thanks go to Robb Masters for the music, and to Mair Perkins, Ruby Roth, and Lauren and her parents for their time.

Because we took over a talks session at the festival to run our show in a tent, we relied on much more help than usual. Our thanks to Tim of VegfestUK and the staff of BES for help and information about the sound system so that I could prepare our setup; and Petrina Butler (formerly of WZBC) and Kevin Butler for helping so much with setup and organisation of our recording. As you can probably hear, I was struck down with a cold that weekend, so all help was very much appreciated.

Our thanks particularly go to the audience for turning up and helping us make the show. I’m more grateful to Diana than usual for going through with the ambitious plan to record at VegfestUK.

(Production footnote: I added the music in post-production, but I think that’s obvious.)

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Born Vegan What is it like to grow up vegan in a non-vegan world? We hear three stories of vegan childhood: Rosemary- appeared as a baby on a BBC programme about veganism in 1976 Elishama  - grew up in the Hebrew Israelites, a religious community trying to rebuild the lifestyle of Eden Andrew – the son of veteran animal activists Download: (... More)

Born Vegan

What is it like to grow up vegan in a non-vegan world? We hear three stories of vegan childhood:

Rosemary- appeared as a baby on a BBC programme about veganism in 1976 Elishama  - grew up in the Hebrew Israelites, a religious community trying to rebuild the lifestyle of Eden Andrew – the son of veteran animal activists

Download: theVeganOption_BornVegan.mp3

(25 min) Play or download (20 MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes) Open Door

In the 1970s, the BBC’s Community Programmes Unit helped different groups produce episodes of Open Door to present their perspective. In 1976,  The Vegan Society presented”To a Brighter Future for All Life” (BFI listing) featuring stalwarts like Kathleen Jannaway and Eva Batt who were involved in the first years of the organised vegan movement.

This 1976  issue of The Vegan describes the Open Door show and the large response to it. Also featured is an article by Rosemary’s parents titled “Veganism can be cheaper too”. In an age without video recorders or YouTube uploads, it offered a blow-by-blow account of the show. Here is Rosemary’s appearance:

The Bland Family – Jenny, Harold, and baby Rosemary – were shown under the hazels in the garden. They told of the healthy diet they had been following for ten years and which they found helped them to enjoy all kinds of outdoor activities – cycling, camping, canoeing, walking, as well as carrying on their working live.

Harold explained with the help of charts that the vegan diet is very economical in terms of land usage; wheat yielding  ten times as much protein per acre as beef and three times as much milk (allowing for the biological factor). He maintained that Britain could become self sufficient in food and that, over 40% of the world’s grain harvest was being wasted by being fed to animals. Jenny maintained that they found the diet very interesting as well as cheaper and easier to prepare.

Activist Kim Stallwood credits Open Door with convincing him to go vegan. Portland blogger @lovemotionstory says she’s “kind of in love with this vintage, BBC series”. These reactions follow someone posting Open Door: To a Brighter Future for All Life in full on YouTube. Rosemary is at the start of part 2.

Hebrew Israelites

Elishama was born in the African Hebrew Israelite community in Dimona, Israel. Their plant based diet is part of a wider belief system about recovering the lifestyle (and lifespans) of Eden; it includes wool, silk, and honey.  Founder Ben Ammi cites Genesis and says that because man was created from dirt, dirt can bring forth all we need to be healthy [Video].

African Hebrew Israelites of Jerusalem on Wikipedia AfricanHebrewIsraelitesOfJerelusalem.com, their own site Kingdom of Yah [God] on YouTube Archived CBS story on the first Hebrew Israelite to represent Israel at Eurovision

They run the chain of Soul Vegetarian restaurants; the AV Club interviewed Yohanna Brown, co-founder of one of the first.

Nutrition

If you’ve come here looking for nutrition information, you might want to go instead to:

Vegetarian Food for Thought Podcast: Vegan with Child, a Healthy Combination - Colleen Patrick Goudreau summarises nutrition advice for pregnancy VeganHealth.org: Pregnancy, Infants and Children UK Vegan Society: The Vegan Diet for Infants and Children Credits

Thanks to all contributors, not just Rosemary, Elishama, and Andrew but also Mair, Daniel, and Hedi, who we didn’t have time to feature. Thanks also to the people who helped put us in touch: Brian Jacobs, Harold Bland, Elishama’s aunt Danielle, and Angie.

Particular thanks to Andrew’s family for tolerating us: his wife Hannah and children Florence (on our opening credits) and Tom (playing in the background).

The film is (c) BBC; a minimum clip is used in the show under fair use, on the basis that talking with its youngest cast member three decades later counts as comment.  Robb Masters, aka Idiotech, wrote our theme.

(Listener Aimee Daniels did, rightly, point out that we’re all born vegan. But we couldn’t think of a better title.)

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Download: theVeganOption_LabMeat.mp3 (23 min) Play or download (13 MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes) Lab Meat A future with cheap lab meat could be drastically different – for humans and animals. How would it work? And is the development of this technology good for animals? Ian (... More)

Download: theVeganOption_LabMeat.mp3

(23 min) Play or download (13 MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes)

Lab Meat

A future with cheap lab meat could be drastically different – for humans and animals. How would it work? And is the development of this technology good for animals?

Ian talks to Nicholas Genovese, a PETA-funded scientist working on the stem cells that could make up what he calls cultured meat. I ask two vegans, transhuman philosopher David Pearce and activist Jordi Casamitjana, why they are for or against in vitro meat; and I reveal the results of my survey. Will vegans and meat eaters ever be able to get beyond the “ick” factor of cultured meat?

(Content advisory: cites animal experiments[why?])

Nicholas Genovese, cultured meat scientist

Dr. Nicholas Genovese joined us from the University of Missouri.

You can find out more about Dr Genovese’s work on cultured meat in his interview at the Institute for Ethics & Emerging Technologies. Michell Sherrow of Peta has blogged about their sponsorhip of Dr Genovese’s work on lab meat.

David Pearce, transhuman philosopher

David Pearce co-founded Humanity+  and  has collected his interesting writings on transhumanism and the abolition of all suffering on his site The Hedonistic Imperative. 

Two blog posts that were very critical of in vitro meat, one by Jeff Perz [Facebook]  and the other by “The Rational Vegan”, inspired my questions for David.

Listener Jeff Zick, who submitted a provocative question about the ethics of growing in vitro meat from human cells, requested the full uncut interview with David Pearce, so there it is.

Jordi Casamitjana, animal activist

Jordi Casamitjana is a zoologist, ethologist and consultant at Animal Protection Consultancy.

He had a central role in the abolition of bullfighting in Catalonia, Spain. Here is a video of him addressing the Catalonian Parliament [in Catalan]. He also wrote an Op Ed for CNN he wrote about his success with the campaign.

Related Links More on Lab Meat

Ian mentioned Peta’s in vitro meat contest.

Why Cultured Meat, a site that makes an animal protection case for lab meat, posted a response to Jeff Perz’s critique.

New Harvest  is another organisation advancing meat substitutes.

We got most of the information about the development of in vitro meat from this review paper:

I. Datar, M. Betti (2010). Review: Possibilities for an in vitro meat production system. Innovative Food Science and Emerging Technologies 11, 13–22 How Disgust Sensitivity relates to Meat Consumption

Disgust seems to be one of the major themes in reactions against in vitro meat and is one of my primary research interests. I spoke a little in the episode about disgust sensitivity, vegetarianism and attitudes towards meat. Here are the references:

Fessler, D. M. T., Arguello AP, Mekdara JM, & Macias R. (2003). Disgust sensitivity and meat consumption: a test of an emotivist account of moral vegetarianism. Appetite, 41(1), 31–41. Fessler, D. M. T., & Navarrete, C. D. (2003). Meat Is Good to Taboo: Dietary Proscriptions as a Product of the Interaction of Psychological Mechanisms and Social Processes. Journal of Cognition and Culture, 3(1), 1–40. doi:10.1163/156853703321598563 Rozin, P., Markwith, M., & Stoess, C. (1997). Moralization and becoming a vegetarian: The transformation of preferences into values and the recruitment of disgust. Psychological Science, 8(2), 67.  Thanks

Our thanks to all of you who filled in our survey – the results of which I’ll post soon; our interviewees Nicholas Genovese, David Pearce, and first ever studio guest Jordi Casamitjana; to Digital media artist Robb Masters who wrote our theme  …

… and VegFestUK, for nominating us for their media award. Please vote for us!

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Download: TheVeganOption_RebelPoet_1.mp3 (24 min) Play or download (22 MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes) Rebel Poet: The Life of Al-Ma’arri A thousand years ago, Al-Ma’arri was writing Arabic poems of extreme complexity, promoting a rational ideal and most remarkably, (... More)

Download: TheVeganOption_RebelPoet_1.mp3

(24 min) Play or download (22 MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes)

Rebel Poet: The Life of Al-Ma’arri

A thousand years ago, Al-Ma’arri was writing Arabic poems of extreme complexity, promoting a rational ideal and most remarkably, making an ethical case for veganism. We tell the story of his life in conversation with fellow vegan rebel poet Benjamin Zephaniah.

We first found out about Al-Ma’arri through a blog by Gary Francione and were both intrigued and surprised more had not been said about him.  Al-Ma’arri’s conversations and opinions seem progressive even by today’s standards. And, like anyone with views ahead of his time, he was questioned by society. The show dramatises his exchange with a leading cleric about veganism.

Benjamin Zephaniah

In this episode Benjamin Zephanaiah, the vegan rebel poet of today, joins us to bring Al-Ma’arri to life.

Benjamin Zephanaiah began as a dub poet and his verses reach people who don’t often enjoy poetry; his rhymes have been celebrated around the world and in a BBC vote to find the UK’s favourite poet he was the only living poet in the top ten. He campaigns in poetry and deed for causes from animals to miscarriages of justice.

He once publicly rejected a royal honour – an “Order of the British Empire” - saying “Whoever is behind this offer can never have read any of my work”. In the show, he finds common ground with Al-Ma’arri.

You can read Benjamin Zephaniah’s poetry and find out more about him at his website.

Thanks

As well as Professor Benjamin Zephaniah, our thanks also to contributors Richard Foltz (who has also written specifically about Animals in Islamic Tradition and Muslim Cultures), Ghazala Anwar, and to voice actors Motaz Al-Shehail (Al-Ma’arri in Arabic), Will Trimble (Al-Ma’arri in English) and Ian Peacock (the Cairo missionary). Thanks also to folk who helped me with research: Sarra Tlili, Sandhya of MEVeg, and at the School of Oriental and African Studies SOAS Radio (who let me use their studio) and Marta of SOAS Veg.

Sources

Because most contemporary sources are in Arabic, and I can’t read Arabic, I relied largely on the work of Victorian Orientalists, particularly David Margoliouth and Reynold Nicholson. Fortunately, much of this is available online, thanks to the work of Google and the Internet Archive.

Reynold Nicholson: Studies in Islamic Poetry and Mysticism, 1921 Chapter 2, The Meditations of Ma’arri (pp 43-289), which includes a brief biography and selections of his poetry organised by theme Full translation of “I do not steal from nature”  (not, as far as I can tell, a title Al-Ma’arri gave it) pp 134-6 “I do not steal from nature” in Arabic (197) on pp 258-9 A Literary History of the Arabs, 1907 Al-Ma’arri pp 313-24 David Margoliouth: The Letters Of Abu ‘L-’Ala Of Ma’Arrat Al-Nu’Man, 1898 Biography of Abu ‘L-’Ala Al-Ma’arri Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society: Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, 1900 The Risalatu’l-Ghufran: by Abu’l-’Ala al-Ma’arri. Summarised and partially translated by Reynold A Nicholson The title directly translates as “The Epistle of Forgiveness”, so called because of the heathen poets who, in the narrative, are forgiven their infidelity and reside in paradise A forerunner of Dante’s Divine Comedy Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, 1902 The Risalatu’l-Ghufran: by Abu’l-’Ala al-Ma’arri. Part 2, including Table of Contents with Text and Translation of the Section on Zandaka and of other passages. Reynold A Nicholson The Risalatu’l-Ghufran … continued from p. 101 Abu’l-’Ala al-Ma’arri’s Correspondence on Vegetarianism. By D S Margoliouth This is the conversation with the Cairo missionary dramatised in the show The Risalatu’l-Ghufran … continued from p. 362

I did check some other more modern sources, but unfortunately those aren’t in a form that I can link to.

Sound

Digital media artist Robb Masters wrote our theme. I also used these actualities and sound effects for atmosphere:

Cavernscape, donated to the public domain by Blaukreuz Niger village muezzin call, donated to the public domain by Felix Blume Early Morning Riad by Gazdooks under CC-BY licence Essaouira Walkabout by acclivity under CC-BY licence Drop Slow Long 1 by Mich 3D under CC Sampling+ licence

In line with the usual artifice of radio, I edited our discussion with Benjamin Zephaniah and re-recorded some dialogue for clarity and flow.

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Download: TheVeganOption_DigitalVegans_nb.mp3 (19 min) Play or download (17 MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes) Digital Vegans How has the digital revolution changed being vegan? We talk to Eric Brent, founder of leading vegetarian restaurant finder Happy Cow. Diana reviews smartphone (... More)

Download: TheVeganOption_DigitalVegans_nb.mp3

(19 min) Play or download (17 MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes)

Digital Vegans

How has the digital revolution changed being vegan? We talk to Eric Brent, founder of leading vegetarian restaurant finder Happy Cow. Diana reviews smartphone apps. Ian finds out how the digital revolution changed his local vegan group in London.

The age of information brings together the Beijing Vegans and the Vegan Club of St. Petersburg in Russia and makes being vegan a lot easier. How has veganism changed? And what are the challenges to older organisations?

Veggie Restaurant Finders

Happy Cow is the best-known and one of the longest – I interview founder Eric Brent where he looks forward to changes for Happy Cow in 2012. It has apps for several mobile platforms.

VegDining, also launched in 1999. Looking for places to eat in London, I could see some problems with the interface (the seven districts of London were all called simply “London” and some were impossible to select) and content (it listed Otarian London, which closed in 2011, as “opening in 2010″ whereas Happy Cow has removed it).

VegGuide is a project of Minnesota USA group Compassionate Action for Animals along with national US group Mercy for Animals and joined this month by Vegan Outreach. They’ve been going since 2002, share their information via an open API and a Creative Commons share-alike licence; but have no apps. Their content seems up to date.

Most local vegan groups list restaurants; that’s too many to mention here. Listener Stephen Fenwick-Paul has created BunnyGo, which maps restaurants in the UK, and has an iPhone app and API.

Smartphone Apps

Diana mentioned these iPhone Apps:

VeganXpress with vegan options at major chains (mostly in the US), vegan candy/junk food, wine and beer Recipe finders such as The VegWeb vegan recipe finder VegOut (which Eric said wasn’t being updated; there is the official Happy Cow app) iVegan and AnimalFree for looking up ingredients

Ian mentioned VeganEasy which also uses the alcohol lists from Barnivore.

VegNews has various articles listing 10 Vegan Smartphone Apps and 11  iPhone Apps.

Some of these, such as Animal Free, are also available for Android. Vegan Eating Out offers a similar fast-food list to VeganXpress, although it includes foods with honey. Eric Brent recommended the barcode-scanning Vegeble for Android.

Animal Hack-tivism

Jasmine Singer reviewed a range of apps in January 2011, suggesting that if you’re a software developer looking to “change the world for animals”, an Android app would be a good place to start.

A couple of our contributors appealed specifically for volunteers. Eric Brent would like Happy Cow to develop its Android app, and would like to hear from an Android developer. Stephen Fenwick-Paul is also appealing for folk to help him test his UK restaurant finder BunnyGo.

We link to VeganFeed.com‘s list of other podcasts in our “help” section.

Contributors

Our thanks to contributors Eric Brent of Happy Cow, Peter Despard of London Vegans, Stephen Fenwick Paul of ActiVeg, Sara from Belgium, and vegan lawmaker Kerry McCarthy MP. Digital media artist Robb Masters wrote our theme.

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Download: theVeganOption-PeaceOnEarth-nb.mp3 (20 min) Play or download (18MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes) Peace on Earth? This season of peace and goodwill, in our special Christmas show, we ask whether there will ever be peace on Earth.  Steven Pinker, author of “The (... More)

Download: theVeganOption-PeaceOnEarth-nb.mp3

(20 min) Play or download (18MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes)

Peace on Earth?

This season of peace and goodwill, in our special Christmas show, we ask whether there will ever be peace on Earth.  Steven Pinker, author of “The Better Angels of Our Nature”, says that human violence has decreased over the centuries – but does that include violence to other animals? Diana asks him. What does “peace on Earth” mean to Peter Singer, author of Animal Liberation and grandfather of the modern animal movement? What does animal rights iconoclast Gary Francione think of Steven Pinker’s theory? Listen to find out.

Steven Pinker and “The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence has Declined”

Professor Pinker’s book has gathered a lot of media coverage, including a review by Peter Singer in the New York Times where he calls it “supremely important”, as well as a more skeptical one in Scientific American. There’s more about Steven Pinker’s core thesis, about human intraspecies violence, here:

the London School of Economics podcast of Steven Pinker’s talk, which Diana attended and features in the show Steven Pinker’s TED talk on the myth of violence Better Angels of Our Nature

You can find him on the web at:

Steven Pinker .com Publisher page for Steven Pinker at Penguin USA Although were not able to get him on the show directly, he did exchange email with us. We didn’t have time to quote his answers about violence towards other animals in full on the show, so here they are, interspersed with Diana’s questions in precis:

Q: It’s not clear from the section in “Better Angels …” how you might or might not engage with animal ethics personally. Can I ask if you boycott any animal products or any products tested on animals? (i.e. are you vegan, vegetarian, pescetarian, totally omnivorous or do not eat things like veal or foie gras).

Q: How would you respond to the criticism that improvements in animal welfare have only taken place insofar as they are economically advantageous for producers and thus do not really represent a decrease in violence toward animals? (e.g. under the US Humane label animals are still castrated without anesthetic, male chicks who cannot lay eggs are routinely ground up alive and numerous other welfare changes that would increase cost are not being suggested even in Western Europe). 

I think I’ll keep my own practices out of the discussion, and respond only to the other questions. With any humanitarian advance, there are always cynics who insist that no one (or at least, no one in some demonized group that the cynic has in mind, in this case, evil corporations)ever acts out of true morality, that there always must be some self-serving interest (the Quakers opposes slavery because they were bankers who financed the industrial revolution; the British stopped the slave trade because their French rivals were getting rich from their Caribbean plantations, and so on). These always strike me as far-fetched, not just because we know (both from evolutionary psychology and experimental game theory) that people often incur costs for moralistic reasons, but because the particular explanations often seem more strained than the moralistic one, which is more parsimonious. I sense a dogmatic attitude in which it is simply inconceivable that any human (or any Western power, or any corporation, etc.) could act morally, so any deflating explanation, however conspiratorial, is accepted.

But the more important point is that I don’t care. My book is about the decline of violence, not a putative increase in virtue. I don’t think the chickens (or the slaves) care about whether their better treatment was motivated by an altruism that is pure in the eyes of God or other moralistic judges, as long as they suffer less. And if we set up institutions that allow people to be less cruel and destructive as they pursue their interests, that is a sign of progress–God help us if every advance in human welfare depended on Christ-like levels of moral purity.

Regarding your answer of whether we are “better humans,” again, that is not my question, if you’re asking a moral question. If you’re asking the biological question of whether our genomes have changed in a way that makes our nonviolent motives more powerful, I consider this question in chapter 9, but end up rejecting it. So yes, we need to teach it to each new generation so our progress doesn’t go away–that is why education, and socialization, are important.

Q: I am interested in an evolutionary perspective on why the animal movement has progressed slowly compared to other movements advocating nonviolence. You mentioned “meat hunger” and the fact that animals are not our kin and cannot negotiate social contracts with us. Do you have any other ideas why, from an evolutionary perspective, rational understanding of animal sentience (at least the vertebrates we eat) has been so slow to change human behavior?

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Download: TheVeganOption-VeganPoliticians3-Debate.mp3 (20 min) Play or download (18MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes) Veganism in Politics 3: The Debate At the end of our last episode, Kerry McCarthy MP said she’d asked for a debate in Parliament to mark World Vegan Day. She (... More)

Download: TheVeganOption-VeganPoliticians3-Debate.mp3

(20 min) Play or download (18MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes)

Veganism in Politics 3: The Debate

At the end of our last episode, Kerry McCarthy MP said she’d asked for a debate in Parliament to mark World Vegan Day.

She was successful, and at the end of business on November 1st the House of Commons debated veganism. I was watching from the gallery.

In this episode, concluding our series of three about veganism in politics, we give our account of the debate. We explain what’s going on, who everyone is, and tell you which of the MPs who spoke against is officially the least sexy Member of Parliament.

Who’s Who

The three vegan MPs, Kerry McCarthy, Chris Williamson, and Cathy Jamieson, are profiled the first set of show notes from this series about veganism in politics.

Jim Paice MP is the minister of state at the Department for Environment, Food, and Rural Affairs – or farming minister – who answered Kerry McCarthy MP. Not all holders of that portfolio are as hostile to veganism. Under the previous government it wasn’t unusual for a vegetarian – like immediate predecessor Jim Fitzpatrick - to hold the portfolio.

Simon Hart MP asked Kerry McCarthy for peer-reviewed science on how farm animals were treated.

Jim Shannon, the UK’s least sexy Member of Parliament, quoted his GP as saying we needed to eat meat. There are, of course, vegan medics and dieticians.

Also present in the chamber (identified in a tweet by Kerry) were:

Alistair Carmichael, the chief “whip” (organiser) of the smaller government party, the socially liberal and fiscally middling Liberal Democrats. In contrast with Caroline Lucas, who lives in Brighton on England’s south coast, his constituency is two islands off the north of Scotland. Robert Goodwill, another whip, for the governing Conservatives Kerry pointed to a while a Labour Party comrade, also a whip, as someone whose bacon joke she’d just had to put up with.

The sole Green Party MP, mentioned in the show for not being at the debate, is Caroline Lucas.

Watching the full debate

In our show, we summarise and analyse the debate in 20 minutes.

You can also get the whole half hour debate:

watch on BBC Democracy Live watch at the UK Parliament website (the adjournment debate is the last half hour) read the official Hansard text at Parliament.UK read the annotated marked up version at They Work For You The Nocton Dairies controversy

Kerry McCarthy traded blows with Farming Minister Jim Paice over this defeated plan for a large intensive dairy farm - not for the first time. This time, it was over whether it was multi-story.

The proposal had been the target of the award-winning “Not in My Cuppa” campaign by several British animal welfare groups. Farming Minister Jim Paice had been supportive of intensive dairies, but Nocton Dairies withdrew the proposal in February after the Environment Agency insisted the risk of groundwater pollution was too high.

I checked the original planning application from 2007:

Update: these plans have since been taken down (perhaps because there’s no need for a local authority to display withdrawn plans), so these links are now broken:

The overall plan; Plan showing that milking parlours have a second story, but not one that the cows would use The planning application doesn’t show how much space the cows would have had when confined, but dividing the length of the “accommodation” in plans by the number of cows shows that each cow could not have had more than 70cm (2’3″) of width, including any space taken up by fixtures between cows.

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Download: TheVeganOption-VeganPoliticians2-QnA.mp3 (14 min) Play or download (15MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes) Veganism in Politics 2: Q & A The three vegan Members of the British Parliament (MPs) answer your questions. Are they afraid about how voters will react to (... More)

Download: TheVeganOption-VeganPoliticians2-QnA.mp3

(14 min) Play or download (15MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes)

Veganism in Politics 2: Q & A

The three vegan Members of the British Parliament (MPs) answer your questions. Are they afraid about how voters will react to their veganism? And what’s the food like at the House of Commons?

Press the play button to find out. (Or, better still, subscribe via iTunes or your podcast catcher of choice.)

Veganism in Politics

This is the second of a series of three shows about veganism in Politics: you can also hear the first show, in which we profile vegan advocates in politics around the world, and the MPs answer questions from their counterparts Maneka Gandhi and Dennis Kucinich. The third show will be about the World Vegan Day debate.

Show notes

The first show’s notes have more about interviewees Chris Williamson MP, Cathy Jamieson MP, and Kerry McCarthy MP.

Jordan Wyatt’s show is Coexisting with Non-Human Animals. His World Vegan Day episode included us amongst dozens of vegans talking about their year. Other people provided questions here on this blog.

Diana mentioned Peter Singer being offered ham by someone in the RSPCA. This incident is in his book Animal Liberation.

Robb Masters wrote our theme.

A tangent about the Green Party

Kerry McCarthy MP and Cathy Jamieson MP, from the main opposition Labour party, both talk about lawmakers from the environmentalist Green Party. Listeners from the United States might be used to a two-party system and surprised to hear a minor party get elected; listeners from countries with more proportionate systems might wonder why the Greens only have one MP.

The Green Party is the fifth Great-Britain-wide party in opinion polls. The British Parliament, in common with national parliaments in the USA and India, uses an electoral system which hurts minor parties with evenly spread voters. This is why it’s taken the Greens until the 2010 election to gain a single representative. The Scottish and European Parliaments use more proportionate voting systems, so the greens have more representatives there. In the show, Cathy Jamieson mentions green Members of the Scottish Parliament (MSPs).

I talk about some of the other ways that animal activists engage with British politics in my Verdant Reports blog post about the 2010 UK general election.

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Download: TheVeganOption-VeganPoliticians.mp3 (40 min) Play or download (20MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes) Veganism in Politics 1: Worldwide We profile the handful of people who combine veganism with politics at their country’s national level. I went to the UK Parliament (... More)

Download: TheVeganOption-VeganPoliticians.mp3

(40 min) Play or download (20MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes)

Veganism in Politics 1: Worldwide

We profile the handful of people who combine veganism with politics at their country’s national level. I went to the UK Parliament to meet Britain’s three vegan MPs. What was their path to politics? And I took with me questions from their counterparts in the rest of the world.

Press the play button to find out. (Or, better still, subscribe via iTunes or your podcast catcher of choice.)

The British Vegan MPs

Chris Williamson (@ChriswMP on twitter) has an official site at www.chriswilliamson.org, but also find: Chris Williamson on Wikipedia; Chris Williamson at They Work for You ; Chris Williamson on BBC Democracy Live

Kerry McCarthy (@KerryMP)’s official site is www.kerrymccarthymp.org. Also: Kerry McCarthy on Wikipedia; Kerry McCarthy at They Work for You ; Kerry McCarthy on BBC Democracy Live

Cathy Jamieson (@cathyjamieson) is officially at CathyJamieson.com, but also: Cathy Jamieson on Wikipedia ; Cathy Jamieson at They Work for You ; Cathy Jamieson on BBC Democracy Live

The American Congressman

Dennis Kucinich (@repkucinich) has two official sites: kucinich.us and, for his constituency, kucinich.house.gov. He’s also Dennis Kucinich on Wikipedia.

The Indian MP

Maneka Gandhi chairs People for Animals. She is, obviously, also Maneka Gandhi at Wikipedia.

As Diana mentioned in the show, Maneka advocates veganism and sometimes identifies as such, but admits she doesn’t always live up to it.

References for science

I referred to studies by the large long-term EPIC-Oxford study, in particular their 2009 paper on cancer incidence. The team have a particular interest in vegetarians and vegans, and I reported their results in my 2008 podcast short at Verdant Reports.

Diana talked about sex differences between men and women with respect to vegetarianism and veganism, and levels of testosterone. Her sources were:

(for vegetarian sex differences) Beardsworth, A., & Bryman, A. (1999). Meat consumption and vegetarianism among young adults in the UK: An empirical study. British Food Journal, 101(4), 289-300. doi:10.1108/00070709910272169 (for vegetarian sex differences) Neumark-Sztainer, D., Story, M., Resnick, M. D., & Blum, R. W. (1997). Adolescent vegetarians: A behavioral profile of a school-based population in Minnesota. Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, 151(8), 833. (for veganism being equally distributed between sexes) Stahler, C. (2006). How many adults are vegetarian. Vegetarian J, 4. (for vegan men having the same testosterone levels as omnivores)  Key, T. J. A., Roe, L., Thorogood, M., Moore, J. W., Clark, G. M. G., & Wang, D. Y. (1990). Testosterone, Sex Hormone-Binding Globulin, Calculated Free Testosterone, and Oestradiol in Male Vegans and Omnivores. British Journal of Nutrition, 64(01), 111-119. doi:10.1079/BJN19900014

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Download: tvo_thepledge_remix.mp3 (33 min) Play or download (30MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes) The Pledge We start our show at the beginning – when folk choose the vegan option. In this case, for a month, challenged and supported by London Vegan Campaigns. I talk to (... More)

Download: tvo_thepledge_remix.mp3

(33 min) Play or download (30MB MP3) (other formats) (via iTunes)

The Pledge

We start our show at the beginning – when folk choose the vegan option. In this case, for a month, challenged and supported by London Vegan Campaigns. I talk to mother Ananthi and middle-aged couple Bryan and Cliff. What challenges will they come across? And will they last the month?

Diana has the statistics from three years of pledges, and finds out what makes people more or less likely to stay vegan. And she’s very surprised by what she finds.

So go on, press the play button. (Or, better still, subscribe via iTunes or your podcast catcher of choice.)

Our thanks to Ananthi, Bryan, Cliff, Lesley and our other contributors, and to London Vegan Campaigns for letting me record there and inviting Diana to analyse the data. Robb Masters wrote and composed our theme.

Other similar events, where vegan activists challenge and support pledgers to go vegan for a month, happen in Baltimore and Philadelphia in the US and Victoria, Australia. Colleen Patrick Goudreau has a book out on a similar theme, The 30-day Vegan Challenge.

I mentioned vegan podcasters Gary Francione and (should he return) Bob Torres.

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Download: successfulsubscribe_mixdown.mp3 This is a small introductory snippet to let folk who get our podcast in iTunes or other podcast readers check that it’s working – and the first hint of our theme tune.

Download: successfulsubscribe_mixdown.mp3

This is a small introductory snippet to let folk who get our podcast in iTunes or other podcast readers check that it’s working – and the first hint of our theme tune.